Steve Scalise walked out of a House Republican Conference meeting last month and put what had been an unstoppable climb up the GOP leadership ladder on hold.

“There’s some folks that really need to look in the mirror the next couple of days and decide, are we going to get back on track?” he said, announcing he was dropping his bid to succeed Kevin McCarthy as House speaker.

Now, six weeks later, Scalise himself is looking in the mirror and reflecting on a whirlwind stretch that saw McCarthy removed by a coalition of right-wing hardliners and Democrats, Scalise’s own ambitions thwarted by many of the same conservatives, and the anointing of a younger fellow Louisianan, Mike Johnson, as speaker.

In a new interview for the Playbook Deep Dive podcast, Scalise examines the backdrop to the drama — his “complicated” relationship with McCarthy, the alleged back-stabbing of a fellow member from Louisiana, and former President Donald Trump’s influence inside the House GOP.

Scalise professes no regrets: “The way that Kevin got removed was a shock to everybody, including myself. I didn’t want it to happen the way it did. And yet when it happened, you don’t have a choice. There’s an opening for speaker, and you have to make a quick decision.”

But he made clear there were episodes in the dramatic weekslong fight for the gavel that he won’t soon forget — including the role of Rep. Garret Graves, a fellow Louisiana Republican who allegedly spread disparaging information about Scalise, including about his recently diagnosed cancer.

“He’ll tell people differently — like, I mean, in the end, we all, you know, we all make our decisions,” he said of Graves, whom Johnson recently removed from the GOP leadership team.

Scalise added: “You can read through the B.S. And believe me, you know, anybody who thinks that there are secrets in this town, there are not. You know that as the press. I can surely tell you as a former whip, more even than majority leader, you find out everything that happens. You eventually find it out.”

More from the extended conversation …

Scalise on his fraught relationship with McCarthy: “You know, the relationship between the No. 1 and No. 2 person in the House historically gets complicated, and there’s been good and bad examples. With Kevin and I, it changed over time. But I mean, you know, like Mike and I get along great.”

On Graves: “I know what was being said. I mean, medical opinions that were being given out were completely false. I had a doctor from M.D. Anderson, the top myeloma cancer specialist in the world, who, along with my local doctor, was looking at all of my blood work and meeting with me on a regular basis, who said, ‘Everything you’re doing is fine, the cancer is almost gone and you’re going to live a long life.’ He’s looking at my blood work. And then there’s some, you know, member, unnamed member of Congress, who’s naming somebody that might not even be a doctor saying he’s going to die in six months. That’s how bad it was.”

On whether not endorsing Trump for president harmed him: “He and I talked during that period, and I still won the nomination, by the way, during that period with him. And he never came out against me. And, believe me, he and I talked even after he endorsed Jim [Jordan]. He said really good things about me. He cares about my health. He asked me about my health. He and I speak on a regular basis.”

On whether he ever wonders how Johnson ended up speaker: “It’s exciting for Mike. I’m one of these people that, you know, you rip the rearview mirror off. You know, you don’t look back. You you know, you deal with what’s in front of you because you don’t have time to look back. You learn from everything you’ve done, you know, whether it’s successes or mistakes, you want to learn from things in the past. But I mean, I’m lucky to be where I am.”

On his health: “I was having health issues. I didn’t know what it was. And luckily it got detected early and the doctors put me on a chemotherapy that was very aggressive for what I had, and it’s working incredibly well. … So if you see something wrong with your system, go see your doctor, get blood work run, and it can add years and decades to your life.”

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Florida Republicans should have clout in the House. They have the numbers, the pedigree and the recently earned distinction as an epicenter of Republican politics.

But that hasn’t translated to much sway in the House, where the 20 Republican members remain at odds with each other over policy and politics but aim to emulate other big, unified delegations. Despite the numbers, they yield little sway. No members are in leadership. No Florida Republican holds a gavel. And while they often vote together on Florida issues, they’re otherwise a motley crew with conflicting alliances and approaches.

“You have a cross section,” former Speaker Kevin McCarthy said recently in an interview when asked about Florida Republicans. “You have [Rep. Matt] Gaetz, who belongs in jail, and you have serious members.”

Gaetz, in response, shot back by referencing McCarthy’s recent run-in with another Republican: “Tough words from a guy who sucker punches people in the back. The only assault I committed was against Kevin’s fragile ego.”

Going into 2024, Florida lawmakers make up about 10 percent of the entire GOP conference — a number most states could barely fathom reaching, much less from one party.

Florida’s role in national politics has expanded recently, with its elected officials grabbing national headlines by sparking intra-party clashes — from GOP Sen. Rick Scott feuding with Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell to Gaetz’ move to oust McCarthy.

The Republicans who claim Florida as their home also bring stature to the Sunshine State: Former President Donald Trump resides at his Mar-a-Lago resort in South Florida during winter. Gov. Ron DeSantis, who was thrust into the national spotlight for defying pandemic-era restrictions, is a conservative darling, praised by Republicans who love his policies (if not his presidential campaign).

While Democrats from New York and California also boast big numbers, they’ve derived power in part through seniority and members in leadership, like former Speaker Nancy Pelosi or Speaker Hakeem Jeffries.

The lack of cohesion, due in part to differing political dynamics in the geographically large state, has allowed attention-seeking lawmakers like Gaetz to not only seize the spotlight but also act as an agent of chaos. Florida Republicans were livid at Gaetz for leading the effort to remove McCarthy — some called it “disgusting” and “inappropriate” — whether they agreed with him politically or not. But without a strong delegation willing to reign him in, Gaetz was free to act on his own — even if that included ousting the speaker of the House.

“There are rewards for being a lone wolf, for being divergent,” Rep. Kat Cammack (R-Fla.) said. “When you reward behavior like that, it encourages it. So it’s gonna be very hard to champion teamwork when people who are trying to unify and be part of the team get dinged for it.”

The delegation itself was divided on McCarthy’s eventual ouster, with two supporting McCarthy or Steve Scalise (R-La.) even when their names were no longer in the running.

In the aftermath of McCarthy’s ouster, Florida Rep. Byron Donalds, a conservative ally of Trump, sought the speakership and in a closed-door election made it through four rounds of voting before dropping his bid. Florida Republicans all said they supported Donalds — the first time they had been unified throughout the contest. But Donalds never had close to the overall numbers needed.

After Speaker Mike Johnson was sworn in, Rep. Brian Mast (R-Fla.) sought to fill the vacant GOP vice chair position. But the conference ultimately picked Rep. Blake Moore (R-Utah), leaving Florida powerless once again.

Outsiders see the delegation’s potential but recognize where it’s at now.

“It’s like watching a good football team that you know is only going to get better,” Rules Committee Chair Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) said of the Florida Republican delegation. “It won’t be long before they have the chairmanships and the leadership roles that you would expect a delegation of that size to have.”

The only state with a larger GOP voting block than Florida is Texas, which has historically been able to whip their votes together and holds four chairs this session. With 25 Republicans, Texas only has five more GOP members than Florida. The next largest is California’s 12 member Republican delegation.

“Texas has a long storied history of positioning their people in this way and it’s taken us a little bit to get that in this place.” Cammack said.

Rep. Vern Buchanan, one of the senior-most members of the Florida delegation, was favored to secure the powerful Ways and Means gavel for this session, but eventually lost to Rep. Jason Smith (R-Mo.).

But with McCarthy out and Johnson in, Buchanan, one of the wealthiest members of Congress, is courting the new speaker. Johnson held his first fundraiser in the role at Buchanan’s Longboat Key mansion, where the senior Florida congressmember helped raise $1.4 million.

Floridians such as Cammack, Buchanan and Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart have tried to copy the Lone Star State’s techniques to unify their voting bloc. For example, Texas has mandatory lunches, something Florida Republicans have tried to emulate in recent years — albeit to low but slowly growing attendance levels, Florida members told POLITICO.

But becoming the next Texas will take more than a weekly lunch, in part because of the geographic differences throughout Florida, the third most populous state.

“South Florida is completely different from North Florida. We just happen to be the same state,” Diaz-Balart said. “Our lack of coordination may hurt us.”

At 11:08 p.m. on Dec. 30, 2020, days before Donald Trump prepared to install Jeff Clark atop the Justice Department amid his frenzied push to remain in power, Clark got a text from one key ally, Rep. Scott Perry.

“POTUS seems very happy with your response. I read it just as you dictated,” Perry (R-Pa.) texted the senior Justice Department official.

“I’m praying. This makes me quite nervous. And wonder if I’m worthy or ready,” Clark replied.

“You are the man. I have confirmed it. God does what he does for a reason,” Perry continued.

At the time, Clark was bolstering Trump’s false claims of voter fraud — and Trump, hoping to harness the Justice Department in his bid to overturn the 2020 election, was nearing a decision to appoint Clark as acting attorney general. He ultimately backed off amid a high-level rebellion at DOJ and in the White House. But the newly disclosed text messages show that Clark was girding for the appointment, bolstered by support from Perry, a conservative leader in Congress.

The intimate exchange between two central figures in Trump’s bid to subvert the election was disclosed in a newly unsealed court filing released Wednesday by a federal appeals court in Washington, D.C. The exchange was one of dozens described in the filing, released in connection with an effort by special counsel Jack Smith to access communications stored on Perry’s cell phone.

The FBI seized Perry’s phone in August 2022, but he quickly moved to block prosecutors from accessing the files it contained, citing his constitutional protections. The litigation resulted in an appeals court ruling in September that largely backed Perry’s position. Wednesday’s release of the communications was part of the court’s decision to unseal key filings related to the court battle.

The newly disclosed filing reveals an extraordinary web of communications between Perry, who is now the chair of the House Freedom Caucus, and key figures in Trump’s orbit. They include:

A Dec. 12, 2020, text exchange with Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel discussing efforts to challenge Joe Biden’s victory in the election.
A series of exchanges between Perry and a former DOJ colleague, Robert Gasaway, between Dec. 30, 2020, and Jan. 5, 2021, in which Perry embraced a plan to have then-Vice President Mike Pence “admit testimony” prior to the counting of electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2021. Perry agreed to “sell[] the idea” with a call to Trump, Pence and Trump adviser John Eastman, but Perry later alerted Gasaway that Pence’s chief of staff, Marc Short, “will not allow access.”
A description of numerous exchanges between Perry and top Trump administration officials, including Clark, White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, senior adviser Eric Herschmann and Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe, a former House colleague of Perry.
A Nov, 12, 2020 text to Trump campaign lawyer Alex Cannon advising the campaign on challenges to the election results in Pennsylvania, as well as numerous other contacts with Trump-affiliated lawyers Jenna Ellis, Boris Epshteyn and Justin Clark.
An exchange with Simone Gold, a doctor known for opposing the Covid vaccine who would later plead guilty to misdemeanors for her role in the breach of the Capitol on Jan. 6.
Exchanges with numerous Pennsylvania state legislators, including Doug Mastriano, strategizing ways to challenge the state’s election results.
Texts with “cybersecurity individuals” working with attorney Sidney Powell to challenge the election results, including Phil Waldron. In one exchange, Perry emailed former Trump National Security Council staffer Rich Higgins to relay an “incredibly spooky” allegation that the U.S. Army had confiscated election servers in Germany to help cover up fraud.

But the exchanges with DOJ’s Clark — described in the federal indictment against Trump as one of six unnamed and unindicted co-conspirators in an effort to subvert the 2020 election — are perhaps the most revealing. Clark, a low-profile figure who oversaw the Justice Department’s civil litigation in the final months of the presidential term, was introduced to Trump by Perry amid Trump’s effort to remain in office.
Trump came close to appointing Clark as acting attorney general in the early days of 2021 before backing down amid a mass resignation threat by senior DOJ and White House officials. During this time, Clark pressured top DOJ officials to send a letter to state legislatures urging them to consider sending alternate slates of presidential electors to Congress, and he obtained a security clearance to review intelligence about potential foreign efforts to interfere in the election.

Perry indicated in one newly disclosed exchange that Trump had personally approved a “presidential security clearance.”

In one exchange, Perry told Clark that Trump was upset with Clark for using the Justice Department to defend Pence against a lawsuit brought by another House member, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas). Gohmert was seeking a court ruling declaring that Pence had the power to unilaterally reject Biden’s electoral votes, but DOJ’s civil division — then under Clark’s leadership — stepped in to defend Pence against the suit, which failed.

“[H]e’s not thrilled with your decision regarding Pence and Gohmert,” Perry texted.

Clark disclaimed responsibility for the brief, saying, “The branch within Civil Division responsible for Gohmert brief refused to have anything to do with my brief.”

“Folks are rebelling against [POTUS] because they know time is short and they yearn for Biden,” he added.

Notably, Clark has pointed to his involvement in the Gohmert suit — and the brief he appeared to criticize to Perry — as Clark defends himself against criminal charges brought against him by Georgia prosecutors.

“I was in charge of the defense of this 2020 presidential election case and my name is the first one on the filings defending the Vice President,” he wrote in a September declaration.

The exchanges revealed in the filing also include Perry’s contacts with other House members seeking to reverse Trump’s defeat or to raise challenges to the election results. Perry texted Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas) on Nov. 7, 2020 that there was “concrete evidence” of fraud in Michigan. The same day and on Nov. 8, Perry “exchanged text messages with Congressmen Hice, Jordan, and Roy, about issues with ‘the Dominion voting system,’ prompting comment from Rep. Hice, ‘YES!! … And don’t forget, on the Trump campaign call this afternoon, they have uncovered ‘illegal ballot harvesting’ in 3 GA counties,’” the filing reveals.

And Perry also exchanged texts with then Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene, who complained about “incompetence here in Georgia,” prompting Perry to respond, “Nothing can beat effective cheating.”